Manchureon Wants to Help Create the Lightbulb

interviewed by Sydney Ling

Spotify Instagram Def-Odd Records

including an interview with manager Angela Lu @angielabber

Shades on, car windows open. A scenic field view blurs by as Manchureon sips a green-and-silver can drink while wind blows through his hair. The camera zooms out, revealing him to be not in a car, but a studio as he hands the can to an off-screen crew member. “Stop playing, there’s plenty of thing I’m not saying,” Manchureon begins rapping in the music intro for his song, “Stop Playing.”

Manchureon is a Chinese American rapper and producer based in the Bay Area. In 2018, while simultaneously pursuing Media Studies at UC Berkeley, he started a record label named Def-Odd Records with his friends in their dorm. Manchureon released his latest single, “Rain Cloud,” in late January. Manchureon believes music speaks a thousand different stories, and he shared his story with Rice & Spice for you to hear.

Could you introduce yourself?

I'm Anthony. I go by Manchureon as my artist name. I was born here in the US in San Jose. After second grade, I went to China and lived there for six years. The specific region I was in was the northeastern region in China, or the Manchureon region. That's where I got my name from.

What first got you into music?

I got into music multiple times in my life. Initially, I got into music because my cousin was a big influence on me. He went to school for music at the time in China. He played the piano really well, and he would write songs here and there. He was a big influence on me in terms of being around a creative energy, and first seeing how people create music. I always wanted to create music, but I never did. That's where I got my initial start of liking music. In high school, I started going more into actually making music. I got into hip hop music towards the end of middle school, but it was the old school 90s hip hop. That's what I got me initially into rap music. Before, a big reason why I didn't end up doing music is that I always had this conception that an artist has to be an extremely talented person- so talented that you just know they're going to make it. Clearly I was self-aware enough to know that I wasn't that talented. So for a long time, I thought that this might just not be for me.

But then with hip hop, I realized it's a very diverse genre. People do different things in that music genre. Some people do melodic rap. Some people just straight up rap. They don't even sing melodies. But they use lyricism or other things to carry their artist image. So I realized to be an artist and do music, it isn't necessarily that you have to be the best singer. I realized that being a creative doesn't necessarily mean you have to be specifically talented in one thing. That gave me more courage to go into actually doing music and trying things out a bit more.

Then I got to college. I already started messing around, making beats, and just recording here and there, but I never released anything- again, because I was self-aware enough to know that it wasn't going to be that good. I just wanted to take some time to develop myself. In college, a few roommates and I were joking around about how, “Oh, we should just start a record label.”

I looked into it, and realized, “Actually, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.” So I started it the next day. From that point on, we didn't have anything figured out- I just had the balls to start it, and somehow I did. I felt like I did need that fire lit under my butt to push myself with, “Okay, now I'm actually doing this business, I have to pay $100 a franchise tax every year. So now I definitely have to do something to make the most out of this.” That really pushed me to learn more about music production, mixing, and how to be a better artist in general.

Why did you start becoming involved in music?

What got me really intrigued about it was the fact that you can relate to certain songs and and have a specific emotional connection to the song. And that varies person by person. If it's a sad song, everyone connects to it in terms of “Oh, this reminds me of some sad episode of my memory.” But exactly what that is, it varies. Every person has a different episode of that. The actual story is very different person by person.

You could have some broad generalizing sounds that convey an emotional meaning people can relate to. Exactly how to relate to it - everyone has their own personal, unique relationship to that song. It intrigued me that people could create sounds you could transfer to emotions. I wanted to know how I could do that too, because I want to make things that convey an episode of my memory that I feel, but other people can also relate to.

“I want to make things that convey an episode of my memory that I feel, but other people can also relate to.”

Where do you get inspiration from?

It can come from very tiny things. It could be one day that I'm at the grocery shop, and I'll be thinking about something. All of a sudden, something just clicks in my head- I have this one specific idea about something- it could be a melody, or two lines of verse.

Listening to other people's music, because you need other people's music to feel inspired. When I go on walks, it puts me in my own space. I’m walking around campus with my headphones on, and I just have my own thoughts; my thoughts become loud, and I can hear my thoughts. Even just having music in the background crosses you into dimensions. Another big one is just sitting in the studio, and just scatting on the beat, trying different things.

Or being around other smaller creators, because every artist has their own way of thinking. It's easy sometimes to keep going down the same loop, and eventually you feel uninspired, because you always have the same melodic riffs, same kind of flow, same cadence, and you want to break out of that. When there are other artists around, sometimes we're in the studio, and they'll do the melody a certain way. I'll notice it and think, “I wouldn't have done it that way.”

What is your songwriting process like?

I used to always have this very methodical approach, where I'm sitting outside and have the beat on. I have to write verse after verse, and then I go on and record. It's very structured, it's “I do this, and I have to do that.” While I'm writing it, I'm like, “Oh, I'll do this, and I'll sound like that, it’ll be great.” And then I record it, and it completely does not sound like how I thought it would at all.

I shifted an approach from that, because I realized there's a lot of effort put into trying to have everything figured out, and then trying to adjust everything later on. What I do now is I have some ideas- bits and pieces- but I usually just roll with it in the studio. I record, even though I have no clear idea what I want to do. That puts me in less of a straight up thinking mindset, but more of a feeling mindset.

At the end of the day, music is still subjective. Even though you go through all this thought process, and you think this is the perfect song, 100 people could listen to this music, and they would have 100 different opinions. Some people like it, some people don't.

“At the end of the day, music is still subjective.”

It made me realize that the best I could do is to make my songs the best I could represent. I think it's really easy to think too much while making music and fall into a trap. It’s important to not always be so structured, and to be comfortable with having a more intertwined approach.

What is your favorite song that you've written?

Listen to Rain Cloud on Spotify. Manchureon · Song · 2021.

“Rain Cloud,” because that was me starting to be less focused on the tiny details. It's based on feeling and rolling with it. The song felt more authentic. I wasn't trying to be someone else. Especially with upcoming rappers, there's this image people try to feed into - “I gotta have this belt, I got to have the chain, I got to do this and that to look like a rapper.”

It's easy to fall into that trope early on. Before you know what you want to do, you look at role models - people that you want to copy off or at least imitate initially. Now, I have a more conscious understanding of developing my own style. With “Rain Cloud,” I didn't have to change how I am or how I perceived myself. The lyrics reflect how I would say things normally, and overall the sound is authentic to me.

What do you hope to change about the music industry?

Now, a lot of things are very structured, even though people say that with digitalization, artists have better opportunities. To some degree this is true- I can release my own music through distributor, I can make music on my own, I can learn how to do mixing mastering online. Resources are more disposable to artists, and digitalization does help. But on the other hand, big labels also have more control. A lot of times what ends up happening is that smaller artists get stifled because they don't have the resources to sustain themselves and actually make a living off music. A common trope is that either you're a big artist who's made it and can live off making music, or you're a struggling artist. I feel like that's very polarizing; I feel like there should be some more in-between cases where you're a small artist, but you have a following that is enough to sustain yourself.

A large reason why we can't do that is because the distribution channels are crowded by the big labels. They own a lot of the most popular Spotify playlists that you see come up, and they plug their own artists on there. Or they own Spotify shares, and in exchange, they let Spotify and these other streaming platforms pay less money per stream for artists.

All these things marginalize smaller creators. While that could be pessimistic about the music industry, it's also what gets me excited about the music industry, because that means there's room for change. Hopefully, I could be one of the people in there that could actually help cause change. That's what we hope to build with Def-Odd Records. We aim to be a record label where grassroots artists are empowered to make a dominant narrative in the music industry and help artists come out with more unique sounds.

“While that could be pessimistic about the music industry, it's also what gets me excited about the music industry, because that means there's room for change.”

How did living in China for a large period of your life impact you as a person or creative?

A big impact was the culture, as of course, the culture is very different. In the US, a big emphasis is on individualism. You’re focused on your own wellbeing and happiness. That inevitably leads to certain narratives in the music industry especially, where in conflicts, it's sometimes hard to say decisively say that one side is wrong, and the other side is right. Spending a large chunk of my childhood in China, I feel like that individuality was less of an emphasis to some degree.

What are your plans with being involved in the business aspect of the music industry? What is Def-Odd Records doing right now?

We started this in October 2018. That was the lowest of the lows, essentially, because we had no expertise and no idea what we wanted to do. But throughout that whole chaotic phase, we also came out with a stronger idea than ever of who we actually are and what we want to do. We realized that for Def-Odd Records, what we really want to do is to help grassroots artists, as well as people who want to work in the music industry.

We want to support people who hope to gain experience within the music industry because while some colleges are geared for people who want to be industry professionals, they just tell you theoretical things. That's important to know, but it doesn't give people all the insight they need to be successful in the professional industry. We want to offer an opportunity to give more students in general - we’re starting with Berkeley, but eventually aim to go to different college campuses - who are interested in going into the entertainment industry, where we can give them opportunities.

At the same time, we want to help grassroots artists build a platform. We want to make sure they have ownership over their work, and have transparent deals with them. I want to make sure that people want to work at or with Def-Odd records, and they want to make good music.

Our immediate goal is to have UC Berkeley recognize us as a relatively professional student organization. Once we do gain a bigger following, we want to replicate the same process at other campuses. But we want to make sure that we keep our core message where the music is first. We’ll still remember to stay true to our roots where we help grassroots artists.

How did COVID-19 impact both your record label and music in general?

What we wanted to do initially was to be a students record label. To do that, we’d have to penetrate through events, whether that be concerts, music nights, events where more people would come to recognize us. Covid changed that, so we can't do live events. Virtual events are still good, but of course, it’s not the same where you get caught up in the moment.

We’ve been pivoting into adapting virtually, through video production and virtual events. There were blessings that come out of going online. Because everything went virtual, people were looking for opportunities. That’s what made people find us initially. It wouldn't have been the case if it wasn't virtual. Just the fact that we get to meet people across the US, if it weren’t for Covid, we would have never had some of these valuable people on our team. There's positives and negatives, just like with most things, but at least what we can do is try to focus on the positives.

How has your environment shaped who you are as either a person or a creative?

Going to UC Berkeley made me even more open-minded about everything, including music. Going into college made me realize there's different kinds of perspectives you can look at for music. There are people who get it, people who don't get it, and that's the beauty about music. Coming to Berkeley, I’m surrounded by people and friends groups who come from different income backgrounds, different environments with multiple perspectives.

I feel like these perspectives made me understand people better. I’ve become more open-minded, and less-closed minded about things.

What's a motto or phrase that you live by and why?

In one of the business classes I’ve taken, there was a quote that really held true for me. People overestimate the consequences of a bad decision, but they underestimate the consequences of inactivity.

Whether you’re making music or doing business or doing anything, it's scary. You don't know where you're headed. There’s hesitation that leads people to weigh over too many decisions, and just end up not taking action on any particular direction.

Oftentimes, people overestimate how bad a wrong decision might be, because people are just naturally scared of failure. Especially going to UC Berkeley, most of the students, throughout their high school education, had always did the homework and answered the right questions on the test. They’ve never failed and they’re scared of failing. It made me realize that failing is really important.

You should want to fail just so you don’t fear it. So you don't think, “I'm scared at this. I'm scared at that.” And at the end of the day, failure is a learning experience where you can have a growth mindset.

“People overestimate the consequences of a bad decision, but they underestimate the consequences of inactivity.”

What do you think is the most important decision that you've made?

Definitely starting the record label. I’d always wanted to do music, but the record label pushed me into a different state of mind. It pushed me to learn how to be a better artist, a better leader, a better mixing engineer, a better person, a better person overall. There was a chaotic phase where I feel like I became a worse person, because I lost motivation and the anxiety made me unstable. But that time made me stronger, and made me realize that I wanted to do music even more.

What is the time that you were proud of yourself?

For “Rain Cloud,” I spent a lot of time with vocal mixing and mastering, which is making the music sound professional, essentially. Before I started, I thought, “Oh it’s not that hard. You have the beat, you record the song over the beat, and then you have a song.” Then I did it, and I was like, “Why do I not sound like a legit artist?”

I learned that I had to do a whole production process on my sound. But it makes me proud when I make a good mix where I made the vocal sound really nice. People recognize it, and they’ll be like, “this is a really good song,” which means the mix was good enough where people feel like this is a professional quality song.

When people say that, I feel proud because when I first started doing this, I was clueless. I had no idea what to do then, and now, I have a better understanding of the process and training my ears to pick up sounds.

Is there an event or time that has either beaten you down, but also inspired you?

You see in the movies all the time where people get together to make music. They release one song, blow up, and they're famous now and on tour. It's really easy to have that narrative in you, even though you know that’s not a realistic case. Part of you hopes to see that happen. But obviously, your record label or music career doesn’t happen like that.

Early on, after I released my first few songs to see barely any reach, I grew a more mature mindset. As an artist, it's really easy to get yourself beat up. You put in countless hours into a song. You mull over every small decision, and you put in so many hours for this product that doesn’t get you any engagement. Sometimes it’s really easy to ask yourself, “What’s the point?”

It was important for me to recenter myself and realize, I’m not making music to show other people. It’s important to show other people but at the same time, I’m also doing this because I like it, and I shouldn’t forget that. It would kill me to see if I lost that passion just because I started feeling awful about it. Those experiences make you learn as a grassroots artist, and also humble you. People who stay with their passion are also the people who grow stronger out of that.

“I’m not making music to show other people.”

When do you feel best about yourself?

With the people who are helping me with the record label. Everybody's working so hard and doing their stuff. We've truly put our heads together to create something with value. Nobody's getting paid. There's no money incentive behind it. It's just purely out of the brand image we have and the goals that we have. There was some value out of that motive- enough to get people invested. That’s when I feel the best about myself because I feel like that's truly magical. The record label could have not been anything, but we had an idea and it was an idea that people thought, “This is really cool.”

What have you done or accomplished that you never thought you would?

I never thought I would get interviewed, or get featured on a playlist or magazine at all. Or the other day, when our video editor was filming the promotional videos for some of my music. He had these cameras set up, with lights and everything. This was crazy to think about for a second, I was like, “Wow, I actually appear to be doing something.” In 2018 when I started my music, I could not see any of this happening, but now it’s actually going on. And that just blows my mind.

Why is what you do worth it?

I ask myself that question all the time. I spend more than a full-time job effort with handling everything, and I feel stressed out every day about it. And I see no money. A lot of times I do ask myself, “Why am I doing this at all?”

It comes down my passion for the music industry. It stems from somewhere- I don't even know from where- but I just have a passion for it. I will challenge whatever obstacle that comes in my way, and I'll try to get better at my skills in the music industry.

A big part is also wanting to change the music industry. Of course, like with anything, initially you have to be slapped with reality a few times before you gain some weight and success. Part of me just wants change in the music industry, and that’s why I’m still sticking with it. It's like investing in stocks. You're buying it at its lowest when it doesn’t quite make sense to invest yet. But because you see a projection, you’re sticking by your investment.

“Part of me just wants change in the music industry, and that’s really why I’m still sticking with it.”

What do you want to be remembered for?

I want to be remembered for that guy who tried to help grassroots artists. Def-Odd Records is trying to push for that. Even if I don't make it, hopefully I can inspire other people who relay that on. People say that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. But, sure, he was the final guy who made the product. But before that, there were so many people who tried to make a light bulb. They all contributed in different ways, in different increments, that eventually led Edison to make that one final lightbulb.

So even if I don't become the final “Thomas Edison” or whoever gets remembered for pushing for grassroots artists, I will still be happy as being one of the people who contributed to the incremental growth of actually having a final “lightbulb.”

Mini Interview with Manchureon’s Manager, Angela Lu

Angela Lu is a Chinese Canadian artist manager who currently works at a music marketing agency called 518 Music. With a master’s degree in Communication Management from University of Southern California, Angela has also had past experience with 88rising, RAPP Worldwide, and more. Rice & Spice spoke with Angela on her journey as a female Asian artist manager in the music industry.

What got you into the music industry and into pursuing your career as a music manager?

I've always been interested in music. I love love going to concerts and festivals. After moving to LA, I noticed there are a lot of opportunities for students who were interested in the music scene. My very first music-related opportunity was being the ambassador for 88rising in the summer of 2018, where they launched a college ambassador campaign. they have they launched a college ambassador. I just applied because I didn’t think too much about it, and I thought it just seemed like a fun opportunity.

We could go around LA, meet different people, and learn more about the music industry. I met different people, people who were passionate about supporting and embracing the Asian American community within the music industry. After that, I was able to get a music marketing internship at 88rising . Continuing from there, I always kept at my elbow and then continue from that I always kept my eye out for any kind of opportunity in the entertainment industry, while meeting different people with the same passion.

What is it like being an Asian woman in a male and white dominated industry?

I was pretty shocked with the music industry where it's still very male predominant. I don't see a lot of female artist managers, at least from within my network. But I do see the rise of communities within the music industry, where women have a lot of different community groups on Facebook or Instagram. These groups have been really supportive, but at the same time I do want to see more women in the music industry working together.

Why is what you do worth it?

With entertainment, especially in America, you see a lot of whitewashing for movies and music. But in recent years, with “Crazy Rich Asians,” Rich Brian, and more Asian artists rising in America, from them, I can see that the work I'm doing is worth it. There is a change with progress in entertainment industry. I feel more inspired by seeing what these Asian creatives do, and I try to contribute what I can do as well.

Anything else you’d like to add?

People in America, or in western countries, tend to have the stereotype of how Asians don't have the talent to make music, especially for hip hop. But I do see the rise of Asian artists making a big progress in the world, also with the rise of Kpop. I'm happy to see the progress with Asian artists growing, and I’ll continue to support them.

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